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The exhaust system typically uses metal venting, often routed into a chimney stack, to exhaust the combustion gases created in the furnace fire chamber. Conventional furnaces that are 80% efficient will make the flue pipe extremely hot (the temperature might get up to 400 F). I'm buying a new Trane S9V2 furnace. Need a picture or better description of what the vent looks like. How To Troubleshoot It? What is the purpose of non-series Shimano components? All these tiny particles will end up in the air that you breathe, as soon as the furnace gets switched on. A conventional natural gas furnace will vent the dangerous combustion gases through a simple vertical exhaust system that is attached to the furnace. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. A recuperator is a gas-to-gas heat exchanger that is installed on the furnace exhaust that preheats incoming Yes, furnace exhaust does contain carbon monoxide as it is created during the process of burning gas. VisitGeorgia. As damage continues, flowers form, but then fall off. This is a sign of too much moisture. Fortunately, this is usually also the most practical heat to recover and reuse. Exhaust passes through the matrix giving up a large portion of its heat before discharging. OP was discussing CO, not CO2. VisitTennessee. So, be on the lookout for ethylene symptoms and fix the problem before its too late. Thanks for sharing! Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. Few questions: Do I have to use a 4" pipe or I Hello - I have gas furnace in my home - a Lennox 75,000 80% furnace G23 q2/3-75 - with a 5"x 25' chimney liner that was installed in 2000. Ethylene gas is another pollutant formed during combustion. But dont increase your homes humidity just to save your plants. Visit Alabama. Remember, ethylene is colorless and odorless. Is Your Home More Humid Than it Should Be? Natural gas ( NG) consists of more than 85% methane with varying amounts of ethane, propane, butane and inert gases such as nitrogen, carbon dioxide and helium. If the color of your plants leaves is fading or if the leaves are wilting, it could be because the plant is too close to an air conditioning vent. With relatively clean natural gas combustion exhaust, these heat exchange surfaces may even be finned or dimpled to capture the maximum amount of heat. Once the sulfur dioxide enters the plant through the stomates, it reacts with water to produce sulfuric acid that will cause leaf burn, flecking and general chlorosis. Seems unlikely to kill a bush. You cant detect it without specialized equipment. Although the combustion exhaust itself is clean, the heating process may be producing corrosive or particulate byproducts that could damage or clog a high efficiency heat exchanger such as one with fins. In fact, 1 ppm (part per million) of ethylene or carbon monoxide can cause serious damage. These cookies do not store any personal information. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. I think it just thawed it out during winter at that spot. First and foremost, vent all burners to the outside. Another important factor to consider before planting is the mature size of the shrub and its growth habit. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. If the color of your plants leaves is fading or if the leaves are wilting, it could be because the plant is too close to an air conditioning vent. Better than a dead bush. In such a case, the combustion gases wont be able to escape outside and they might get released into your house. All gas-burning appliances generate combustion gases that can be potentially dangerous if your system is not able to get rid of them properly. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! 5. These detectors are small badges or tags that can be worn on your person or placed in the greenhouse environment. Prune overhead branches to maintain 4 feet of clearance between the top of the unit and the branches and clear the ground around the air conditioner unit weekly. WebGrasses and perennials that grow more than 6 inches high should also be planted at least 2 to 3 feet away from the base of the unit because ventilation for the unit is also drawn from that area. Another byproduct is water vapor. A conventional natural gas furnace will vent the dangerous combustion gases through a simple vertical exhaust system that is attached to the furnace. The exhaust system typically uses metal venting, often routed into a chimney stack, to exhaust the combustion gases created in the furnace fire chamber. I would agree with Keep it simple stupid, I would call your local gas supplier and have them send out a leakage inspector. Since I preferred to get rid of the chimney entirely (and did so when I re-roofed), we went with the out-the-side exhaust. Tomato plants are very sensitive to certain pollutants found in the exhaust from fossil fuels. Carbon Monoxide will kill a household (humans too) swiftly. If you dump it outside, it will kill plants, grass anything that it comes in contact with." Any thoughts? All fuel-burning heaters need to be vented with a stack to the outside. Other common venting questions: This will restore some of the moisture that is stripped from your homes air. 3 Natural Ways to Give it the Boot. Check for cracks by inspecting for light penetration while the furnace is running. That excellent idea of yours should be considered by tent growers. Also, call your furnace maintenance firm to inspect the unit in question. You've requested a page on a website (cloudflarepreview.com) that is on the Cloudflare network. How to use Slater Type Orbitals as a basis functions in matrix method correctly? She is co-founder of On Fiction Writing, a website for writers. WebHowever after the second year the furnace exhaust killed the top 1/3 of one holly. WebOne is that if a condensate drain is draining water from a high-efficiency furnace, this water can be acidic and damage plants. VisitAlabama. Share Improve this answer Follow answered Jun 5, 2014 at 14:18 Steven 27.3k 9 51 86 3 WebOne is that if a condensate drain is draining water from a high-efficiency furnace, this water can be acidic and damage plants. Hauck both manufactures furnace combustion equipment, including recuperative burners, and offers custom engineering services to industrial furnace users. Michigan State University Extension programs and materials are open to all without regard to race, color, national origin, gender, gender identity, religion, age, height, weight, disability, political beliefs, sexual orientation, marital status, family status or veteran status. You should inspect and clean the intake and exhaust pipes from time to time. You don't have to use all of the exhaust gas, but you could hook up a regulator or just turn on/off the valve that feeds the gas to the plants. Chapman notes that smelting in the copper mining industry is an example of an industry starting to move in this direction. This colorless and odorless gas is harmless when breathed in small amounts (thats what we do all the time), but in enclosed spaces, a high concentration of CO can become extremely dangerous. WebIt is a way that we locate leaks when suspected. I'm buying a new Trane S9V2 furnace. Make sure that the exhaust pipe is pointing up and not down. We installed a high efficiency furnace several years ago and were told that the exhaust would not harm plants or bushes. If not cut the pipe right up against the fitting and prime and glue a PVC 90 pointing up, use PVC because it is a high efficienty furnace. This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. Cold air blowing directly on plants often strips it of its moisture. However the plant is on its third plant manager in three years, and no action is taking place in making improvements. Why Furnace Is Making A Clicking Noise Troubleshooting Guide. I have a strong propane smell in furnace exhaust. High Efficiency Furnace exhaust and plants. Older type technology using relay logic is not readily adaptable. If you are looking to get houseplants, considerhardier plants that have bigger, broader leaves. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Avoid space heaters in a tomato greenhouse. and fuel supply lines with leaks. The combustion process for both natural gas and LP gas are very similar. Jim Roberts from Eclipse notes, Sometimes the cost looks staggering, but remember that most furnaces have a very active running schedule, so the paybacks, even at low gas costs, can be very fast. This South African native grows to between 1 and 3 feet tall and wide and thrives in hot, dry conditions. Any thoughts? Tomato plants are very sensitive to certain pollutants found in the exhaust from fossil fuels. However, tighter greenhouses are more likely to allow buildup of toxic gases. The 4-H Name and Emblem have special protections from Congress, protected by code 18 USC 707. Care should taken if you install unvented heaters. Using gas chromatography, the air samples can be assessed for ethylene levels and other hydrocarbons such as methane and propane, which is helpful in discovery of leaks in gas supply lines and leaks in the heat exchangers. No, it sounds like you have a high efficiency furnace and these will direct vent outside versus using the chimney stack to vent. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Even if paybacks are in the two-to-three year range, the long-term savings are worth it., Energy Solutions Center Info on Furnace Heat Recovery. Thats why the exhaust that leaves the system might be merely warm. Also, space heaters may consume oxygen and deplete it so that incomplete combustion may result, producing harmful by-products. Tomatoes will exhibit injury within 24 hours if ethylene is present. The only thing I would do is rout your dryer vent into the room during the winter. The advantage of a regenerator over a recuperator is that it presents a much larger amount of heat exchange surface to the hot exhaust flow. JavaScript is disabled. MSU is an affirmative-action, equal-opportunity employer, committed to achieving excellence through a diverse workforce and inclusive culture that encourages all people to reach their full potential. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. In any event, the use of unvented space heaters is too risky for the commercial greenhouse grower. Try this checklist for proper maintenance. It only takes a minute to sign up. Also, call your furnace maintenance firm to inspect the unit in question. So, if you have a 125,000 BTU heater, you would need an 8-inch diameter fresh air inlet pipe that would give you the 50 square inches you need. Even though lower humidity levels may not be best for houseplants, its essential for your health and comfort and helps protect your home from mold, sickness, and damage. If we take a 30' x 100' double poly greenhouse and maintain inside temperature at 60 F on a 0 F night for a 12 hour period, heating with unvented propane or kerosene heaters would add about 22 gallons of moisture to the air and heating with natural gas would add about 16 gallons. First and foremost, vent all burners to the outside. Can my Furnace and Water Heater share an exhaust? First, an air conditioner blows out hot air as it cools your home, and this heat can kill shrubs that aren't heat-resistant. 1. MSU is an affirmative-action, equal-opportunity employer. WebUnvented heaters can be fired with natural gas, propane or kerosene. The heat exchanger, in its turn, can also develop cracks due to age or exposure to moisture. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. 3 Answers Sorted by: 1 No, it sounds like you have a high efficiency furnace and these will direct vent outside versus using the chimney stack to vent. There is also an issue with cleaning cooling coils and condensate drains with cleaners to keep them operating properly. He notes that items to consider include existing burner construction to determine exposed metal parts and insulation that may have to be upgraded to accommodate higher temperature combustion air and flame temperatures. Check for leaks by painting soapy water on the joints and seams. Evergreen shrubs add year-round color and those with an upright growth habit form a screen for an outdoor air conditioning unit. We comply with the Federal Trade Commission 1998 Childrens Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA). Planting near an outdoor air conditioner unit is challenging, because it requires shrubs of certain sizes and shapes that won't block the air flow or cause damage to the air conditioner. You might want to talk to the installer to see if it could be better positioned as to not damage you plants. This information is for educational purposes only. 1-K kerosene is a low-sulfur petroleum product whose composition varies widely depending on what part of the world it comes from. A Burning Question: Ethylene and Sulfur Dioxide Damage in the Greenhouse, Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs (OMAFRA), Leatherwood W.R. and N. Mattson. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? High humidity can cause mold growth, damage to your homes structures, and more. I think it just thawed it out during winter at that spot. This colorless and odorless gas is harmless when breathed in small amounts (thats what we do all the time), but in enclosed spaces, a high concentration of CO can become extremely dangerous. You don't have to use all of the exhaust gas, but you could hook up a regulator or just turn on/off the valve that feeds the gas to the plants. If you love a well-placed houseplant and take pride in your green thumb, heres an AC fact that might alarm you: Your AC can harm (and even kill) your houseplants. It has a heat value of from about 950 1050 Btu/cu ft. When designing the greenhouse layout, make sure the intake vent from one greenhouse is not close to the exhaust stack of another one. Most plants will recover from ethylene injury. Why Furnace Blower Motor Is Making Noise When Starting? Although this is not an answer to your question, but it a more attractive venting option. This is added to the greenhouse at night when moisture levels are already high and can condense out on the cold glazing surfaces and drip on the plants. 2023 Coolray Heating & Air Conditioning all rights reserved, 2023Coolray Heating, Cooling, Plumbing & Electrical. Usually excess air is needed to get complete combustion as greater mixing occurs and more of the fuel particles will make contact with the oxygen. Quite a few run CO2, and there's an awesome tankless hot water heater setup that produces CO2, fully detailed in these very forums. As the heater operates, oxygen is used and combustion efficiency decreases unless makeup air is available. rev2023.3.3.43278. For more information on testing the air for ethylene, see "How to take air samples in the greenhouse to test for ethylene and other air pollutants.". 2 diesel oil, wood, or some alternative fuel type, the same rules apply. Peace. Just make sure when you go in there, you may be breathing it to. yea, king of the bad ideas, let it go from your mind, never to be thought of again. The type and quantity of impurities depends on where the fuel originated from. All fuels contain traces of sulfur, some more than others depending on its source. Carbon monoxide can lead to worker illness. Put in a new bush away from the vent & leave a gap for the vent or replace the bush with a chair or loveseat, bird bath, sculpture or fountain looking thing. Why do academics stay as adjuncts for years rather than move around? Other common venting questions: Experts recommend taking a break from time to time to have a walk outside. If the color of your plants leaves is fading or if the leaves are wilting, it could be because the plant is too close to an air conditioning vent. First and foremost, vent all burners to the outside. To contact an expert in your area, visit https://extension.msu.edu/experts, or call 888-MSUE4MI (888-678-3464). However he feels that a single-minded focus on short term profitability sometimes means a lack of incentives for long-term energy saving projects. We can look at the crop and obtain air samples to verify if ethylene is the problem. Why Is AC Mini Split Making Noise When Off? There are three differenty types of bushes in the area and we are having the same problem with all of them. A common problem in many newer greenhouses is that they are very tight. Dumping these flue gases into the greenhouse may improve the overall efficiency rating as compared to a conventional heater but the pollutants and added moisture from combustion may put your plants in jeopardy. How long ago were the shrubs and bushes planted? Just make sure when you go in there, you may be breathing it to. Could wind be causing my high efficiency furnace exhaust to back up into the house? WebBasically, cold temperatures cause plants to starve. After the matrix is heated, the stream is mechanically directed to another section or vessel and incoming combustion air is drawn through the hot section and heated. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. We installed a high efficiency furnace several years ago and were told that the exhaust would not harm plants or bushes. Different species handle the effects of air conditioning differently. 3 Places Mold Can Hide in Your Home Air Conditioning and Heating System, Tired of the Humidity? 1 cu ft NG + 10 cu ft Air + Flame gives 8 cu ft Nitrogen + 1 cu ft Carbon dioxide + 2 cu ft Water vapor. Peace. This article was published by Michigan State University Extension. Check for leaks by placing a smoke bomb or furnace candle within the firebox. Each new greenhouse season Michigan State University Extension educators and specialists hear of ethylene and carbon monoxide problems in greenhouses somewhere in the Midwest. VisitTennessee. Note: My experience is in the UK where terminology differs from that used in the US. Make the panel a decorative part of your garden design and folks wont even know you have a vent there. This will likely cause one greenhouse to pull in contaminated exhaust from the other. A further assistant to the bush gap above is to have the installer approve shrouding to minimize the bush gap & protect the bushes. It both protects the plants from the blast and collects any lint and keeps it from view. Will Gnome 43 be included in the upgrades of 22.04 Jammy? Yes, furnace exhaust does contain carbon monoxide as it is created during the process of burning gas. Either that or the J I just put out makes it seem so. The only inhibitor is scale. He explains, The cost of retrofitting little furnaces is disproportionately higher than one operating at, say, 45 MMBtu/hr or larger, so the economic case is more difficult to make.. The effects on greenhouse crops will vary with the plant species and growth stage, temperature, length of exposure and the concentration of the ethylene. Yellowing orchid leaves. If you dump it outside, it will kill plants, grass anything that it comes in contact with." Repairs should be made as soon as possible. Two types of heat recovery systems that are commonly used with industrial furnaces are recuperators and regenerators. However, the easiest way to check for CO in your house is to install a special carbon monoxide detector. The newest high efficiency heaters have fresh air intake systems as part of the installation kit. Thanks for sharing! Why? The flame should burn clear blue. Why Nest Thermostat Not Turning On? I'm updating an exhaust pipe on my furnace. We installed a high efficiency furnace several years ago and were told that the exhaust would not harm plants or bushes. 1. Or the lack of oxygen may cause the flame to go out and the burner to shut off, leading to freeze damage. Dr. Rick Snyder has been a Professor and Extension Vegetable Specialist for 33 years at the Truck Crops Experiment Station, Mississippi State University, P.O. I have noted plant injury symptoms more often in plastic greenhouses compared to glass greenhouses due to the airtight nature of poly-greenhouses. Share Improve this answer Follow answered Jun 5, 2014 at 14:18 Steven 27.3k 9 51 86 3 Even 1 ppm of ethylene for just three to four hours can be toxic. So, Mr. Einstein, tell me and the other responders before me here that apparently not know the difference? Other common venting questions: Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? Clearly, energy savings are not always enough. So, check your plants location. Using gas chromatography, the air samples can be assessed for ethylene levels and other hydrocarbons such as methane and propane, which is helpful in discovery of leaks in gas supply lines and leaks in the heat exchangers. A recuperator is a gas-to-gas heat exchanger that is installed on the furnace exhaust that preheats incoming Get up-to-date current news, promotions and industry tips. That excellent idea of yours should be considered by tent growers. I keep the area around my funace very clean and I open up and clean it out regularly. It's still not very nice to call me an idiotespecially since I was trying to help the thread and give a nice compliment! This is exactly how the system gets rid of the gas that hasnt been fully used during the combustion cycle through the exhaust pipe. The 14-point pH scale of acidity runs from 0 at the far acidic end to 14 at the far alkaline, or basic, end, with pH 7 denoting a neutral solution. Tomato plants are very sensitive to certain pollutants found in the exhaust from fossil fuels. This ensures there will be adequate air flow for your air conditioner to operate efficiently. Russ Chapman from Firebridge notes that larger companies are starting to benchmark their large plants against each other, and against the competition, in terms of sustainability of the plants. How To Stop AC Refrigeration Line From Vibrating? To have a digest of information delivered straight to your email inbox, visit https://extension.msu.edu/newsletters. We'll put this in the "let's not and say we did" category. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Also, the young, upper leaves on the plant will twist around, sometimes turning upside down. On the other hand, much lower levels, 0.01 to 0.05 ppm, can cause problems if this level is maintained for long periods (chronic exposure). These fuels are advertised as clean-burning. A heater that has been serviced in the fall will probably not be at peak efficiency as spring approaches. The maximum lengths and numbers of bends allowed depends on the furnace design and perhaps on local code - so you should probably ask the manufacturer or installer. You don't have to use all of the exhaust gas, but you could hook up a regulator or just turn on/off the valve that feeds the gas to the plants. Other than that, yes it can go through the roof instead & again, But, both the intake & the exhaust have go up together. Know the symptoms and how to check greenhouse heaters to avoid the concern. This partial combustion leads to the formation of various byproducts, starting from nitrogen dioxide and ending with carbon monoxide. This is generally true if the burner is clean and has been adjusted to top efficiency. However, there are a few other health-related issues that can be caused by your heating system: If the unit is not regularly cleaned, then it can become home to various bacteria and fungi (the HVAC system can also harbor mold). In fact, 1 ppm (part per million) of ethylene or carbon monoxide can cause serious damage. According to Jim Roberts from Eclipse, in recent years an important improvement in furnace heat recovery is development of self-recuperative burners, such as Eclipses ThermaJetdesign. No appointments. Difference between "select-editor" and "update-alternatives --config editor". A great indicator plant to use for the presence of ethylene is a tomato plant. For example, you canbuild a terrariumthat allows you to still view and enjoy the plants but helps keep out colder temps and dry air. Ethylene damage seems to be most common on new heaters not installed properly, and on heaters more than six to eight years old. The pipes are usually black or white and they exit the wall right next to your furnace. Floriculture and vegetable crops grown in greenhouses that utilize natural gas or propane fueled heaters can be susceptible to ethylene injury according to MSU Extension. These chemicals can damage plants. If you suspect a gas leak, try to get your utility company (gas, diesel) to come test your exhaust with an ethylene tester. So, if a tester reads less than 1%, all that means is that there is under 10,000 ppm of ethylene. A heater that has been serviced in the fall will probably not be at peak efficiency as spring approaches. Sultzbaugh adds, We also need to look at the air-fuel ratio, which will require adjustment., Asked whether existing burner controls can be adapted to the addition of recuperation, Sultzbaugh explains, It depends on the type of control method being used. Installation Cost? Peace. It's one thing to clear up a mistake, such as mine, but it's going overboard to start picking when someone is TRYING to help. Look for any pattern along the gas pipe route if nearby. Be sure your recuperator design takes into account the specific characteristics of your furnace operation. A more likely problem is killing a treasured plant with exhaust gases. The installer is going to put the PVC pipes about two feet away from a cherry bush, actually midway between the bush and the A/C compressor. Want some help? There are several rules a grower needs to follow to be certain the heating system is beneficial to the bottom line. A recuperator is a gas-to-gas heat exchanger that is installed on the furnace exhaust that preheats incoming Related article:Is Your Home More Humid Than it Should Be? We recently learned that leaking gas lines can cause plants to die. What Does A Pressure Switch Do On A Furnace? the gas is carbon Monoxide, and it is very toxic. Plants are very susceptible to ethylene injury at levels from 0.01 to 1 ppm or more. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. A common problem occurs when the company sends out a rep with a tester that measures in percentages rather than ppm and states that there is no reading, meaning that the air is ethylene free. That excellent idea of yours should be considered by tent growers. If you dump it outside, it will kill plants, grass anything that it comes in contact with." He feels this company could reduce that bill by 25%. Sorrymy dumbness I guess. 3. Just make sure when you go in there, you may be breathing it to. However, he also points out that for operators with site emission permits written on a lb/MMBtu basis, recuperation allows the use of more furnace capacity, hence increased productivity. An early symptom of CO poisoning is headaches, but can be accompanied by dizziness, weakness, upset stomach, vomiting, chest pain and confusion as poisoning becomes more extreme. Inefficient combustion can emit unwanted and harmful pollutants into the greenhouse that can affect the plants and the people working with them. Make sure the burner flame is clear blue. If it is yellow or orange it needs adjustment. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. Cloudflare is currently unable to resolve your requested domain. Thats why its incredibly important to place the exhaust at least 4 feet away from windows, doors, and air inlet.