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database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique. *Performance average removes all outliers good and bad, to give a distance based on how far a well struck shot will go. How noticeable will the difference in trajectory be and will distances change? I couldn't agree more, they are a thing of beauty but also of art, it'll change the effect the way the club goes through the turf, I've lost some distance using these because I was hitting the new T-MB which 3 iron went a mile, but the 3 iron in the MB's is what dreams are made of, way easy to hit and launch, I wouldn't want to mess with it, that being said I did increase the lie up 2 degrees for my swing:). A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. Started Thursday at 03:24 PM. Lynx Black Cat irons were set this way, so I had to have the 5 iron bent 2*, the 6 iron 1.5, the 7 iron 1.0 and the 8 iron .5 (this was my experimental set). Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth . Novak has finished 11th after the first round in Hawaii, fifth at Torrey Pines and in the top-30 at Pebble Beach and at the Honda. Sitemap. Callaway MD 3 52 bent to 54 [size=4]KBS 610 S+[/size] Seriously. There is no question that golf is one of the hardest, if not the hardest, games in which to become reasonably proficient. This is a list of all clubheads that clubmakers are not allowed to bend. I teach golf on the Eastern side of Michigan where I am the Director of Instruction for three golf courses. Thanks for the insight! Putters have the least loft, usually from 2 to 4 degrees. Upload or insert images from URL. I think that makes a difference. Equipment counts courtesy of Darrell Survey. Not fact but I do think more offset makes it easier to draw the ball. Strengthening loft also increases the offset of the head. Much of Harrison Endycotts claims were covered in the2023 Players To Followlist, but the summary is worth repeating to justify his selection this week. Cast club heads made of industrial steel are all on the so-called "unbendable list". To do this, simply Google, Golf Club Fitters Near Me and you will get a great list of places that will make sure you are playing the right lie angle for your game. But when I show them the results on golf radar, which can be as much as 5-to-10 yards more carry distance, they start to get it. Even with limitations, many of todays metal woods are indeed bendable, especially stainless-steel heads. For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lof, Lower launch, lower flight (generally) but you lose some bounce and add offset, Titleist TSi4 8.25* / Fujikura Ventus Black TR 7-X IG: golfer_scott Free shipping for many products! Plenty have broken their duck here, and now the Puerto Rico curse has been resigned to history lets get with a couple of players who have their best days in front of them. Taylor Made tour issue M2 T3 Ozik Matrix 8M3 X If you change your AOA and go 2* steeper, both delivered loft and bounce is reduced by 2* I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. Started Thursday at 03:24 PM, Please put and questions or comments here, Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here. Now as lower handicappers, we will probably not have our hands at impact fluctuating 3, 4 or 6 inches, but I would not say mine are within an inch of exactly the same place every time. This feels like an anyone week the back-nine on Sunday could be fun. A standard golf shop, or fitting center will be able to do this. Due to how DeChambeau delivers the club, his 4-iron has a stated loft of 16 degrees; the stock Ping i230 comes in at 22.5 degrees. Copyright 2020 GolfWRX Holdings, LLC. Surely getting consistent results and regular yardage gaps between clubs is more important than shooting for some ideal stats that may go against your natural swing? Your link has been automatically embedded. What I havent seen mentioned is that iron shafts have changed a great deal and offer more low kick (higher launch/spin) options to be able to match with those lofts. Titleist U500 3 & 4 Oban Kiyoshi Purple Tour Reserve Ball speed from the new irons is what is creating the distance. You can also bend the angles to a consistent specification precisely fit for any golfer. I know some pros naturally hit it higher, and some lower. It is a lot easier to find what lie angle you need in your golf clubs and purchase a set rather than have to individually bend each club. Machines that adjust for all hosel positions, such asMitchell Angle Machinesare accurate regardless of the offset or hosel design of the golf club. These are topics that have been kicked around and that are important in todays market, so articles will most likely be touching on them in the future. It can be re-bent without any adverse effect on it. Sure, the top few are valid members of the PGA Tour, all with their legitimate claims in this lowly class, but we then have the likes of Chad Campbell (unranked after not being seen for almost three years) and Frank Lickliter (now outside the world top 3000) bringing up a rear lacks depth. Among full-swing clubs, drivers have the lowest degrees of loft (some pros use drivers with as little as 7 degrees of loft; most recreational golfers use drivers lofted at 9 to 14 degrees). Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. While golf club manufacturers certainly try to make a consistent product, there are often inconsistencies in the lofts and lies of the clubs and they may not be progressively consistent from one club to another. In turn creating around 12 more yds. NOW AVAILABLE: GolfWRX G/Fore Hats and Holderness & Bourne Polos! I created this website after hearing the same questions from my students over and over as a place where new golfers can come to learn and improve their golf game. 716 MB'S It sorts my gapping out perfectly as a result. This will change the trajectory of the ball, and can potentially cause misdirected shots. The bounce on irons is pretty much a non starter in my opinion. More is not always better, but I would expect nothing less from a fitter at Carls Golfland. I am constantly amazed at how many golfers are trying to play the game with a fundamentally unsound hold of the club. most amateurs like to hit the long ball not the low score. (I ran into this today.) Good question. * MD4 54/10 S-Grind replacedMD3 54/12 W-Grind. Should I see any difference in 1 degree stronger irons? You might as well get a distance gap before bending. Im contemplating a set of Mizuno MP-53 irons. (others have mentioned) I went to GG with my pops and hit the speedblade 9i for sheets and was hitting them 165-170why? ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! 1 is somewhere between somewhat important to very important, then the next question has to be. If my hands are 2" farther back or forward at impact that is + or - 3*. I am a good long iron player and prefer them over fairway woods and especially hybrids. The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. My advice would be to start by making sure the lofts are set to manufacturers specs. While you might prefer the overlap, interlock or full-finger style, the hold on the golf club is pretty much the same the upper portion of the grip has to be under the pad of the upper hand and held more in the fingers than the palm of both hands. When I was fitted for my 714 AP-2's it was the Titleist fitter who suggested we go 1 degree strong, but it take very little divot. TM TP UDi #3, MC 4-7, MB 8-P w/ Tour V S+ You don't say what club it is, but Rev said it sounds like a long iron and I agree. You will see it often when a pro, for example, will eliminate his 4 iron from the set and they may strengthen their 5 iron a degree or two and weaken their 3 iron a degree or two to even out the gaps. Might actually help on hard ground. I have plenty of X-flex swing speed and don't need the high launch (that just kills me in headwinds), but like the forgiveness on mishits. The reason this happens has to do with an iron's center of gravity (COG), because when you lower an iron's COG you add a lot of potential height to a golf shot. Brent Grantcould very well be one of the seasons fairy stories by September, having already secured his 2022/23 card with a stunning 50-foot birdie putt on the last hole of the Korn Ferry Tour Championship enough to finish 11th and sneak in. So, it is my contention that conditions on the course often vary much more than changing the dynamics of a club by a degree or two. I am a club fitter also and see this every day. If your Ball Speed was higher than that, say up to 125, which is a few MPH slower than PGA Tour average, you would want spin to stay within 200-300 RPMs higher, and Launch Angle to come down to about 14*. Club design of a particular club can be a factor also. i realize the distance and ball flight. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 Whether you can still hit the ball in the air and make good contact is dependent on your swing. Low bounce irons can become more digging prone from this change. I also don't mind the little more offset I don't over cut it. But the end result for an iron fitting is the same: I want the customer to leave with a set of irons that produce the best possible launch conditions for them. Shane Lowry on the new Srixon ZX Mk II line (fairway wood, utility, ZX5/ZX7 irons). I am purchasing new irons and am seriously considering getting the lofts 2* weak to create a 48* PW and 4* loft spacing. I am in favor of weaker lofts. I am not sure exactly what you are asking with the final 2 questions, are you asking should the 5 and 7 iron have the same launch conditions as the 6 iron, or would there be any issues if your 5 iron or the 7 iron launched like the ideal conditions for the 6 iron? High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. I'm curious what effect bending the irons 1 or 2 degrees strong would have on the irons playability. That would depend on what GI head design you have and to be quite honest the only way to be sure would be to test these irons on a golf radar. Not every iron or wedge can be bent. Keep the loft the same and take an extra club for the shot. This happens probably most frequently with wedges, when a person wants to play 3 instead of 4 wedges for example. December 27, 2014 in Club Making/Repair & DIY Projects. - Chick Evans, Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons, Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper, I will add a little to what was posted above. We're not robotic enough to predict that exactly 3 or 4 degrees is the correct gap empirically. Would bending it serve the same result? Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34" -or- Rife Bimini, 34" Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! TaylorMade Aero Burner TP 15 / Matrix White Tie 70-X Display as a link instead, Including me. Played a mp30 2i for most of the year as a gap from my 3i to my 3 wood. The one with a ballflight too high, is delivering the clubhead It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. If you have any doubt about the hand position, think of this scenario. Can someone please discuss the advantages and disadvantages of increasing loft on an iron by 2 degrees? Driver: Charles Kelley whats in the bag accurate as of the Pebble Beach Pro-Am. 2023 Acushnet Company. At 100 mph you are obliterating the ground. It is a combination of those factors to get consistent results. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. some strong lofts there, i thought you had blade type irons so, which have weaker lofts? I suspect Ill be waiting a very long time, Amen, finally some one with great insight. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Theyre selling the clubs by saying that you will hit them longer, yet like you said, many of those whod need the help arent really hitting at least the longer irons any longer. Hi! Sure. 50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*, Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck In 11 starts since gaining his place at the top level, the 26-year-old has made four cuts, including a first-time-out 12th at the Fortinet, 10th in Bermuda (led after a first round 62), 22nd at the American Express 7th after day one) and top-30 at the Plantation Course last week. If a golfer was a digger, will he/she still get somewhat better turf interaction with the GI irons vs. with a players irons? Espana. I have a 17-degree 4-wood, a 21-degree hybrid, a 26-degree hybrid, and a 29-degree iron as my longer (non-driver) clubs. Even the most skilled repair professionals can occasionally break a club. In my experience I have seen guys in the 8-14 handicap range with moderate ball speed try X Hot irons, and see much better results with the Rocketbladez. Ping Glide wedges w/Recoil 110 I know for people with slower swing speeds these crazy lofted, ultimate SGI irons are perfect. Compare that with 49-year-old Atwal, with a best of 49th place since 2021 and an average first-round placing of around 120th for his three starts in 2023, and Scott Brown, admittedly a former winner here, but now 719th in the world and who has, since September, withdrawn twice during tournaments, and missed his last two cuts (Pebble and Honda) ranking 99th and 136th for his first round he certainly looks wrong in every way. is 2 degrees enough to mess up a club? Iwas wondering if I could bend my 712 AP2 irons strong and not see any changes in the irons. Are you above or below average for some or all of these statistics? We dive into a subject we get A LOT of questions about, bending your clubs properly. I changed my Apex pro 19 2 degrees strong. Some get more spin, some less. The 2 that were out the most went from 'avoided' clubs to 'favourites'! If you are a true sweeper that may be ok but you may not see that big distance gain you are hoping for. But what I dont understand is why you would need to weaken the loft of irons 2-3* when the gap between irons is 3-4*. Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X, In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. Potentially, this would mean the toe digs in and your shots go right (right handed). So if you have the time, watch this cool video that I really like explaining how important lie angle is for your golf game: Having and knowing the correct lie angle of your clubs will be a game changer, I promise! St Louis, MO. i dont need that. Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. Distance is fine, but I have an overly high flight in the wind. Its like that distance is just not filled. This also gives me room for more wedges. Your previous content has been restored. Best Shaft For Wedges, Need A New Golf Glove? Any knowledge on the subject would be appreciated. Thats why I custom order iron sets with lofts that are 1-to-2 degrees weaker than standard about 40 percent of the time. Adjusting 2 degrees strong will kill the bounce of your irons. I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not. I can't say that they have kicked my 716 ap2 out for good, but for now the 716 cb are staying in the bag! About time someone who knows what theyre talking about said what the the real deal is with loft and modern clubs. Chamblee takes on Tiger: Brandel, meet Bayless, Tweets of the week: Lizards, grammar police, bad greens, worse sunglasses. If experience still trumps explanations, simulations and printouts, print out some ebay listings there are lots of older sets with barely used 3 irons. Good point. The risk that the club will break at the hosel is too high. Custom Edel E-3 Putter, More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. I find Callaway irons have to much bounce to begin with esp. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand. Lofts don't always come in 4-degree increments. He hasnt let that chance go, and while the opening nine events certainly havent been stunning seven missed cuts he showed up at Bermuda, finishing 35th after entering Sunday inside the top-15. I dont pretend to be an expert, or even close. Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. OK, quick question. Say you have a modern set that is 3-PW, 19*-45*. I have a 2 iron bent 2 strong to 16. First, is it safe to have P790s bent that much? Club Repair Seminar shows golfers the importance of checking the specs.. March 27, 2015 at 11:41 AM SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Endycotts weakness so far seems to be the driver, and with his stats suggesting he recovers well top-15 for approaches in recorded events this non-penal track should suit. It was suggested that I would bring my launch and spin down a bit with making my irons 1-2 stronger. But regardless of the type of change you are trying to make, you also have to be willing to commit to it and suffer the learning period oftentimes you have to get worse (for a while) to get better (permanently). TaylorMade M1 15* Tensei CK Pro White 80X or If this continues well end up with 25* 7 irons and carry 6 or 7 gap wedges. Offset degrees especially with a long iron can be a factor along with sole design. (I ran into this today.) I don't have any problems with the slight increase in offset and the lower bounce but if needed you could get someone to grind the leading edge a bit to put some bounce back. Location. Adams A12 19 - Fuji HB 80X, PXG 0311X 4 - HZRDUS Red 105 X Why would you weaken the lofts of every club and increase the bounce angle by a proportionate amount if you could just get rid of the 3 iron and add a gap wedge? Iron lofts can be bent up to 2 degrees stronger than standard (note: making the loft stronger will increase the offset and reduce the bounce . Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95 If the club has an abundance of bounce and/or a rounded leading edge, reducing bounce by 2* might not matter. You get to replace the 4 iron thats gone with something you can get in the air. Hes happy to answer any of your questions! Golfers change the lie angle of a club to better their chances of hitting the center of the clubface. But Im not sure whats being accomplished with weakening irons. What I was hoping from this article was proof for that a current 46* MB/CB PW doesnt go any further than the 47/48* PWs of the past. Bomb and gouge. Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver You are also all correct in that it is a long iron. In the fittings I do on a golf radar, I see all types of swings and golfers of different ability levels, so the variances in fittings can be dramatic. Pros and cons? But loft is a much more important factor in fitting. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. See below the make percentage for an average golfer from varying distances. The simple fact is that good golf cannot be played with a bad grip on the club. If jacking with strong lofting one you need to have a good fitter/ instructor work with you on your model suggestion and what will fit your swing. Haven't registered for Team Titleist yet? As you watch PGA or LPGA golf, you will see very little personalization to this basic fundamental. If you can get it in the air, no problem. The reason this happens has to do with an irons center of gravity (COG), because when you lower an irons COG you add a lot of potential height to a golf shot. The loft difference in the AP2 7 iron and AP3 6 iron is 6 degrees apart. I truly wish customers would do their do diligence before getting fit. 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. But bending an iron weak is not as well understood by many golfers, so they are more hesitant. The drop off in make percentage from 3-6 feet and 6-9 feet is huge. Its ball speed not loft that is increasing distance. Here are the different ways fitters change the lie angle of a club: A club can either be bent to an upright position (toe higher than heel) or flat (toe lower than heel) usually in increments of 1 or 2 degrees. traditional lofts ftw (let the technology be what determines added length/distance, not loft changes). Changing the loft on clubs can really screw with the visual look of them at address and change the playing characteristics. The Wedge Guy: What really makes a wedge work. However, recent form has shown the real Grant, with back-to-back class efforts at Torrey Pines and Pebble Beach, where at the former he led an elite field after a first-round 64. GolfWRX_Official Each one of those sees him rightly disputing the market number one, but Im not sure I can get involved at around 20-25-to-one with any of the favourites, even if they hold excellent claims. There was only an added 2 yards with the stronger lofts of trackman. Long story short, I'm about to have the 5,6,7,8 iron bent 2 degrees weaker, 9 iron 1 degree weaker, and AW 1 degree stronger. A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. Instead, I will take Novak at slight odds-on in his three-ball against Scott Brown and Arjun Atwal. On a driver? people hit it further because of stronger lofts is such a wifes tale. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. AP2 irons are forged and can be bent with no problem, BUT I would recommend taking them to someone who does this for a living. Say you start with a classic blade 7 iron with 40* static loft by how much could you reduce the loft in conjunction with a GI head design without launching the ball lower? Oh, and Jason Day is reputed to have bent some of his irons strong and I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with ego. So if you are steep or tend to take a pretty good divot, you may not want to bend them more than a degree. This is a dumb question but were you fit for them? there comes a time when too much loft jacking is too much. I knew that bounce and loft have a 1:1 ratio but never thought that changing lie angle would affect swingweight but it makes perfect sense. Callaway Epic - HZRDUS BlackCobra F9 3 Wood Older irons can be bent to achieve better gaping and additional distance, but the distance increases will be very small. Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. I do not find these to dig at all. TM M2 8.5* Graphite Design Tour AD GP 6X+ What bounce does is keep the leading edge from digging into the ground. Clamp the piece in so only a 1/2 inch below where you want the bend in the angle iron is flush with the top of the vise. I was being fitted for MP-4's and the ball flight with the kbs tour x was a little higher than i wanted so my fitter was able to bend it strong incrementally by 1 degree to flatten out the ball flight for me.