We offer a comprehensive product selection from hand carving tools to large production machines. Incra Jig table saw fence system - $400 (Baldwin City) Complete Incra Jig table saw fence system. Additional charges may apply. PROP 65 INFO - CA RESIDENTS READ. KEY: 641485. The world's most versatile and accurate movable fence for your router table, drill press, or band saw. This isn't a huge issue but the ease of repeatability is nowhere near the level of the Incra. Table saw not included, only the fence is for sale. It is rock solid and reliable though. 480-926-2131. I just read some of the comments regarding the common sense of putting a good fence on a saw of questionable quality. The
. For sale openly. Click to download TS-LS Table Saw Fence - Part 2 of 3 in Windows Media format. The NEW INCRA LS Positioner has all of the precision and versatility of other INCRA tools, plus a host of new features and design details that set it apart from anything else. INCRA's TS-LS System was one of only two fence systems to earn top scores for alignment against the blade and lack of deflection in Wood Magazine's May 2004 Rip Fence Test. with any 10" table saw, with no drilling, no tapping and no modifications. The new TS-LS removes exactly the same way as the TS Ultra shown here. The fence skims above the table on whisper smooth glides, eliminating all fence to table contact. It's really difficult for me to spend a couple hundred bucks on a fence that's still going to be reliant on pencil markings when I know for only a bit more I could have the incra where for a lot of things I may not even need to mark my cuts. Click to download INCRA TS-LS Table Saw Fence Video in Windows Media format. *Quoted freight applies to the lower 48 states only. John F. SoCal transplant, chewer uppper of good wood. Without question, the best thing I ever did to that saw was fitting it with the Vega fence. lead screw-based mechanics instantly position the fence in 1/32 steps
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Incra WONDERFENCE37 Wonder Fence Router Table Fence Brand: INCRA 25 ratings $34995 FREE Returns Heavy-duty, one-fence solution for all of your router table operations Produces perfect box joints and dovetails in all styles Includes a hi-rise 4 1/2-inch fence cap for vertical panel raising and tall boards Includes Incra TS-III table saw fence 10" WORKSITE TABLE SAW WITH GRAVITY-RISE WHEELED STAND. It is made of durable, Incra Jig table saw fence system - $400 (Baldwin City), Vintage Delta Adjustable Tenoning Jig Table Saw No.1345985 - $95. Blue Book Categories. The fence skims above the
>> more, Copyright Taylor Design Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved. anywhere along the 72" rails in either direction.
Because the positioner is located halfway down the fence it makes it tough to use jigs (spline jig comes to mind) since there's a perpendicular point roughly halfway down the fence. This product will ship approximately 28-32 weeks from the order date due to a temporary factory closure and high demand. Theres no guesswork, period. INCRA TS-LS Table Saw Fence - 32" Range consists of: Base Mount Unit and TS-IIIA 36" Rip Fence - Dismounts for cross-cutting operations and remounts in less than 10 seconds. That was, in my opinion, my only qualm with it. The Incra fence provides a lot more functionality and much higher precision and adjustability. ISTM that putting a great fence on an ok TS is not a sensible thing to do. The standard TS-LS (LS32-TS) covers saws measuring 28" or smaller front-to-rear. I have no opinion to offer about the difference between the two, but if you decide on the Biesemeyer design, you might be interested in making your own. Pre-Owned. It also will take up considerably more space, since it sounds like it needs about 36" of space to the right of the fence when cutting large pieces. capacity, Expandable in
Jim. Ok, so instead I use my Vega's micro adjuster for that. This model is heavy at over 30 pounds, but that's because it is constructed out of solid steel. Bu~, Height fence 212. The 5 HP, 1 ph, 230V configuration with a 36" Industrial. Biesemeyer fence system. seeing how the 4 rail mounting brackets attach and comparing that to your saw. Base Mount Unit and TS-IIIA 36" Rip Fence - Dismounts for cross-cutting operations and remounts in less than 10 seconds. All prices are in USD Copyright 2023 Carbide Processors. points for exceptional stiffness, Consistent
Please submit links to how-to pages and videos, pictures of beautiful and amazing pieces you made for us to admire, or help you finish. INCRA Router Fence & Table Combo #3 The Works LS17 Imperial, NEW! by its appearance! We will send you an email notification. Ancient. (4) adjustable Incra rail mounting brackets to bolt against two brackets at
Eco shipping. Click the button below to add to your wish list. Five Sliding Scale Template Channels All LS
By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. To start with - they're both excellent fences. $5,245 USD. The Incra TS-LS table saw fence is perfect for those who don't need a table saw router or are only interested in upgrading thier existing fence to the most accurate system on the market. All Rights Reserved. INCRA Wonder Fence A heavy-duty, one-fence solution designed for all your routing operations, shaping, edge-forming and precision joinery. I'm trying to decide which path to go down to upgrade the fence on my old 60's era PM 66. This way I don't have to worry about the scale of the fence being correct and dead on with my tape, or the scale going out out adjustment with my tape. saws measuring
I do have the Incra system fence along with many attachments, and they all work well for me. TS-LS JOINERY SYSTEM TS-LS Joinery Systems are available in 32", 52", 810mm and 1320mm range models. The LS stands for Lead Screw. x 34 In. Because it's threaded you can ensure repeatability if you need to cut something at 4", move to 6", then realize you have to go back to 4" since you're essentially locking into that groove at 4" with the positioner. The INCRA Base Mount Unit and TS-111A Rip Fence includes a 36" computer-machined rip fence . Jan 19, 2023. I rarely cut right to the line, all my fine fitment is done with the jointer or hand plane. Mutually agreeable pric~ Delivered anywhere in USA Amazon - Since today Price: 65 $ Product condition: New See details Vega u50 table Table saw fence. Regarding the ease to get the Incra locked down - it's pretty simple. The incra is appealing because of the crazy accuracy that can be achieved, but it sounds like it is slightly more involved to get it locked into position than the biesemeyer. One major advantage is speed. Incremental Tools is a part of Taylor Design Group, Inc., the maker of INCRA Tools. I think it depends a lot in the way you like to work. >> more, INCRA CleanSweep Downdraft Dust Collection Cabinet
Price to be discussed. centrally placed carriage literally forces the fence into perfectly parallel alignment at any position. The more tools you buy the more you find to buy. This new unit was established to provide the ultimate planning resource for woodworkers seeking to upgrade their shops - accuracy and efficiency with INCRA Router Table products, LS Router Systems, and TS-LS Saw Fence Systems. Choose Standard or XL: Measure your saw's top front to rear along the miter slot. The positioning range is 32" to the right and 14" to the left of the blade. You can get plans and parts at vsctools.com from a YouTuber. However, that should be a "set it and forget it" thing. Google the name and model number for all the info. Regarding the ease to get the Incra locked down - it's pretty simple. Google the name and model number for all the info. Grip force urethane. Incra Table Saw miter gauge push 3/4" wide x 3/8" high rod size Craftsman. Simple, patented
Come join the discussion about shop safety, wood, carpentry, lumber, finishing, tools, machinery, woodworking related topics, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Heavyduty, onefence solution. From liquidations. Product condition: Used See details Incra flipfnc18 telescoping Telescoping fence. >> Click here to watch the TS-LS Demo - Part 3 of 3
Let me know if you have any specific questions. . Legendary Accuracy, Repeatability, and Efficiency:
MEL YODER: myoder@timberww.com Of the brand chicago electric, A blade diameter defined as 4 in as well as a cutting depth 34 in and this is also a set includes equivalent to blades, In particular: table, mini , Includes incra tsiii. I sold the Incra when I sold my old Ridgid just because of the footprint (I had the 52" one) was too big for my shop and I felt the Sawstop's fence would certainly suffice as it gets rave reviews. The SawStop Industrial Cabinet Saw is the definition of industrial grade. Accessory kit available for Incra Table Saw Fences See Model #04310 Accessory kit available for Delta Unisaw Table Saw Fence See Model #04311 ** In order for JessEm's Clear Cut TS Stock Guides to work on a portable table saw unit, the fence must be atleast 2 inches wide. You set it once and it shouldn't move. Wonder Fence, INCRA CleanSweep Downdraft Dust Collection Cabinet. >> more, Copyright Taylor Design Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved. About $15 at the steel store bought a tube and angle iron, drill and tap a few holes a little paint, and now I have an 85" front rail - enough for a 48" cut to the right and 23" cut to the left. I am also considering adding a router table extension to the table saw, if I can find one that fits and works well. Miter Saw Track Tape Measure For T-track Router Table Saw Woodworking Tool. The standard TS-LS (LS32-TS) covers saws measuring. Lengt~, Vintage craftsman king. Do the Vega fences have this adjustability of the ruler to properly zero the fence? Made in U.S.A. Surplus~, Table saws shop fox | A power source corded | a blade diameter qualified as 10 in | A model : 1820 | A blade strength represented by high | Including: heavy, high , Guides construction: the. Ho~, Table saw delivers. I could get a Vega pro fence shipped now . Nothing wrong with it, just doesn't work for what I need. On mine, you can move the cursor on the fence head to get it precise. Only down-side to Incra . INCRA TS-LS Table Saw Fence - 32" & 810mm Range, The 32/810mm-capacity TS-LS is based on a 72 rail and an LS32 positioner. Miter gauges don't offer control or accuracy when pulled beyond the front of the saw, while the 5000 can crosscut 23 In. From liquidations. INCRA Shop Stop Patented Automatic Positioning Control and micro adjustability mean instant, repeatable accuracy without measuring or trial and error setups. The main concern I have with the Vega vs. incra is the zero-out ability. Compare that to the Biesemeyer fence which basically clamps to the rails and you can see why repeatability with the latter is more a product of a properly aligned system and an astute user (not to say it's hard, but you know what I mean). Compatible incra flip. Woodworking Miter Gauge 450mm 0-90 Degree Angle Aluminum Fence Stop Sawing Ruler. . is the best resource for
especially: arbor, table. All of our products and services are competitively priced and available from some of the worlds leading manufacturers. . brackets are attached with a minimum 5/16-18 or 8mm bolt. Table Saw Lawnmower Trimmer Grinder - Sander - Polisher - Buffer Generator All Types. I agree with Jim, cheap saws biggest issue is the fence, but unless it has a riving knife, I would be looking to replace it anyway. Effortlessly center your work for any operation. I have a Vega fence and love it but with the exception of the built in micro-adjuster, it's not really anything different than any of the other quality fences of the same basic design. accommodate hold downs and wooden sub fences, Straightforward
Centering Scale (imperial systems only) fits in a third channel to Automatically and
TIMBER WOODWORKING MACHINERY HI, PR and other US Territories will be quoted at current rates. $337.50 (3 used & new offers) SWMIUSK True-Flex Featherboard Saftly Table Saw Push Block,Pack of 2 Table Fence for Woodworking T-slots Miter Slots on Tablesaws,Router Tables and Band saws (Yellow) 4.5 (544) $1975 FREE delivery Thu, Mar 9 on $25 of items shipped by Amazon Vega U50 Table Saw Fence System: 36-Inch Fence Bar, 50-Inch to Right 4.4 (151) I absolutely love it. 28" or smaller front-to-rear. If your budget is not quite big enough for a new machine stop in or check out the used equipment page and see our great selection of high quality used machines. Talk directly to Neil at Taylor and see if he can't bump you up the list . Car & Truck Safety & Security Accessories. ), and it is simply great! The positioning range is 32" to the right and 14" to the left of the blade. $49.99. In the future you can easily move the entire Incra system to another saw. Both systems use the same LS32 Positioner, and quick-release knobs allow the positioner's base assembly to be shifted further from the saw blade on the 52" system's longer rails to achieve the greater capacitt. Capitalizing great idea,. Incra Imperial ShopStop 1/32" Adjustable Incra Track / Fence Stop: SHOPSTOP, INCRA Wonder Fence 37" Stand Alone Router Fence for Woodworking. I have no experience with Incra fence, but I can't see any major advantage. Whether your table saw cost $500 or $3,500, your saw only turns the blade, and it's your rip fence that holds the key to the accuracy of your work. The Primary scale adjusts on a magnetic track in the first channel to indicate distance from the cutter. installation on a huge variety of table saws, Two rail lengths
It has a 36-inch fence bar that moves 26 inches right and eight inches left. This also makes it easy to use INCRA precision on both sides of the blade. Turned a so so saw into a really good one. saws measuring. the future with router tables & accessories, Its fast - each time you pull the LS32 positioners red locking lever, the lead screw mechanism instantly snaps the fence to the dead center of the nearest 1/32" increment with an accuracy of +/- 0.002". On the other hand, I always make my cuts to the mark on the wood; that may be a byproduct of having a shitty fence on my saw though, I've never had the opportunity to work another way. Manufacturer: Sawstop. Solidsteel laser cut. Cleaned tested. The fence can be initially aligned parallel to the miter slot, slightly "relieved" on the outfeed end, or anywhere in between. Long story short, I decided on the incra ts-ls 32" fence. However, it's back ordered for close to 6 months. When you need perfect, tight joints, the DELTA Universal-Deluxe Tenoning Jig will give you professional results every time. +/-0.002 (1mm +/- 0.05mm for metric versions) with perfect repeatabilityyou
Incra WONDERFENCE37 Wonder Fence Router Table Fence, Incra Jig Precision Positioning Gauge Woodworking Tool, NEW! In either inches or metric, the big advantage that an INCRA TS-LS fence system has over your current rip fence is quite simple: In addition to locking into perfect alignment, INCRA fences measure their distance from the blade mechanically, so your accuracy doesnt depend on how much skill you have, how good your shop's lighting is, or how tired your eyes are. That's a tough call. I also have an Incra 1000HD miter gauge and an Incra router table. Long time Vega user here, and with the micro adjuster I feel it is a great fence. Brand New. Google the name and model number for all the info. Made in U.S.A. I have a Shop Fox, and the fence is accurate enough Had a Ridgid Contractor saw before that, and it was accurate enough. The XL version fits most
RAEANN YODER: ryoder@timberww.com. If you ever decide to get a wider cut, it's very easy to extend it. The standard TS-LS (LS32-TS) covers saws measuring 28" or smaller front-to-rear (measured along the miter slot). The Biesemeyer is incredibly accurate in its own rite; however, to dial in you often have to nudge the fence accordingly. Click to download TS-LS Table Saw Fence - Part 1 of 3 in Windows Media format. The bolt holes need to be centered between
JavaScript is disabled. This mod~, Removed working radial. See the TS-LS Compatibility Chart for more information regarding the TS-LS & TS Router Table installations, WARNING: Cancer and Reproductive Harmwww.P65Warnings.ca.gov. Click to download INCRA TS-LS Manual in PDF format. Incra Stop for Incra Fence & Rack System, NOS New Old Stock! You can move the fence in either direction by as little as .001" if need be. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. I have had a Vega and a Incra fence on different saws that I have had, both good fences but they are both different on what they are. includes an excellent
The fence is very robust, and if I were to buy another commercially available fence, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Vega. There are two things you need to check to make sure that it will fit your saw: - TS-IIIAMOUNT - Base Mount Unit and TS-IIIA Rip Fence, INCRA
Cell Phone & Mobile Devices Computers Musical Instruments Audio Equipment Guns Video & TV Vintage Pro Sound Camera Equipment Copiers Power Tool Video Games Car Stereo. If the fence is streched out on a table saw it is difficult to reach the micro adjust knob & check the measurements at the same time. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. From liquidations. Well, the Incra TS fence isn't R&P, but it's pretty close. Opens in a new window or tab. The tradeoff of course is either that it limits your ripping capacity because of the way it has to be installed and/or it increases the footprint of your saw significantly. These brackets also ride above the table saw
Weekly: $225.00. Angle stop~, Check out these interesting ads related to "incra table saw fence". I thought that life was meant to be that way. It's a tried and true design that seems to work well for almost everyone. Website Design, Hosting, Maintenance & SEO by. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The Incra uses, in essence, a super long threaded rod that's accurate up to 1/1000th of an inch. >> more, INCRA I-Box Jig for Box Joints
Lifting the red locking lever causes the patented steel lead screw positioning system to instantly snap the fence to the dead center of any multiple of 1/32" with an accuracy of 0.002". We are the GO-TO-GUYS for all your woodworking tools, equipment, and supply needs! Nothing wrong with it, just doesn't work for what I need. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. READ - Incra Miter V27 Table Saw gauge push 3/4 . Don't be put off
Thanks for all the info so far, looking forward to hearing more opinions! Currently is has the original fence on it with the tubular rails and each time I set the fence up, if I want any accuracy at all, I have to measure front and back, then tap the thing in to place before locking it down. The standard TS-LS (LS32-TS) covers
. Amazon re~, Compatibility: designed fit. INCRA IRSET06 6" Marking Rule Set 406 $5799 Between $100 and $200 INCRA CLEANSWEEP Clean Sweep Dust Collection Cabinet 34 $13999 Above $200 INCRA MITER3000SE Miter Gauge with 27-Inch-49-Inch Telescoping Fence & Flip Shop Stop 79 $35495 MORE RESULTS INCRA IRSET06 6" Marking Rule Set 406 $5799 FREE delivery Sat, Feb 18 Or fastest delivery Fri, Feb 17 PROP 65 INFO - CA RESIDENTS READ, INCRA CleanSweep Downdraft Dust Collection Cabinet. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The fence skims above the table on whisper smooth glides, eliminating all fence to table contact, Grinding Carbide- Health and safety risks, Metric TS-LS Table Saw Fence, 810mm Range, Incra M-LS32-TS, TS-LS Joinery System, 32" Range, Incra LS32-TS-WF, TS-LS Table Saw Fence, 52" Range, Incra LS52-TS, Metric TS-LS Table Saw Fence, 810mm Range, Incra M-LS32-TS-XL, TS-LS Table Saw Fence, 32" Range, Incra LS32-TS-XL, TS-LS Table Saw Fence, 32" Range, Incra LS32-TS. Click to download TS-LS Table Saw Fence - Part 3 of 3 in Windows Media format. cant miss! Sure accuracy down to the thousandths is sexy, but the reality is my table saw blade wobbles more than that and a slight handfeeding misalignment throws your accuracy out the window. On the Ultra the micro adjust knob is behind the locking handle. The scale is an adhesive scale on the front rail (at least on mine it is but mine is probably 25 years old) so you can't move it like the Incra. Daily: $60.00. Available with 32" or 52" capacity TS Systems and are available either with or
We specialize in woodworking tools, equipment, and supplies for commercial woodworking cabinet shops or furniture manufacturers as well as the home shop hobbyist. Can't beat that system. The Biesemeyer is incredibly accurate in its own rite; however, to dial in you often have to nudge the fence accordingly. However, it can't be used for heavy-duty projects. I have no opinion for the Vega. Quick, Easy Installation Universal mounting brackets virtually guarantee compatibility
table saws. . Table saw fence upgrade package for saws up to 28-1/2" deep includes 32" LS Positioner, 36" rip fence and 72" rails. TS-LS Systems are available in 32", 52", 810mm and 1320mm range models. I recently went through the same process of upgrading the fence on my old Delta contractor style saw. The Auto-
He has an extensive video series online about putting a Biesemeyer style fence together. From the Commercial Woodworking Cabinet Shop, to the Custom Furniture Manufacturer, to the Home Shop Hobbyist. Featuring brand names such as Amana, Bosch, CMT, Freud, Delta, Jet, Powermatic, Safety Speed Cut, Porter Cable, Fein, Lobo, Shop Fox, Conquest, Olson, Starrett, and many others. INCRA MITER1000SE Miter Gauge Special Edition With Telescoping Fence and Dual. without router tables. INCRA PushGuard
Not that I'm confining myself per se, but I imagine any fence I purchase can (and will) upgrade with me as I move to a newer saw. I have a Vega fence (over 20 years! It's also smooth both sides, all the way down, so certain jigs can be used to great effect. Video links are on his website. Easy On, Easy Off Dismounts for cross-cutting operations and remounts in less than 10 seconds. The positioning range is 32" to the right and 14" to the left of the blade. I ve been tap-tap-tapping table saw fences professionally for close to 4 decades now. Any input and advice would be greatly appreciated. Three pairs of stops on the rails guarantee that the fence system stays perfectly aligned and calibrated each time its moved. The main improvements of the LS are the micro adjustment knob is right behind the fence. Certified use~, 113 series table saw part craftsman. Sponsored. USED. saws top front to rear along the miter slot. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for INCRA Miter 1000SE Special Edition Table Saw Miter Gauge at the best online prices at eBay! Part of the questionable quality is directly attributable to the crumby fences that came with these saws from the factory. I have a Shop Fox, and the fence is accurate enough Had a Ridgid Contractor saw before that, and it was accurate enough. It's a great size for both professional woodworkers and hobbyists. by its appearance! All I had to do to make a new drawer was to set the fence and gauge to the proper dimensions and pop out another drawer. alignment relative to the blade, Fence T-slots
I tell you the pros and cons in my opinion of using the Incra table. Monday - Friday | 8:00AM - 5:00PM This isn't a huge issue but the ease of repeatability is nowhere near the level of the Incra. . Table saw dewaltEspecially: rolling, withUsed here in Usa , 113 series table saw part craftsman; a blade diameter specified as 10 in; in particular: table, rip , Table saw blends. The INCRA TS-LS
adjust knob allows moving between 1/32 increments in 0.001 steps, Fence locks at 3
owners manual, Measure your
Integrated micro
This also makes it easy to use INCRA precision on both sides of the blade. saws top must have flat, vertical surfaces on both the front and rear for the
table on whisper smooth glides, eliminating all fence to table contact. It's pretty much a Beismeyer clone, I even think they're interchangeable. I looked at Incra and Biesemeyer but ultimately went with Vega (the third option you might not have considered). From private person. Opens in a new window or tab. The "XL" version fits most of the newer 10" & 12" cabinet saws with deeper tops measuring 33.5 . I've seen videos of how simple the incra is to zero, and that and the steel rule in a t-track is I'm sure what leads to such incredible accuracy. Works great huanyu. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Table saw not included, only the fence is for sale. Designed to meet the needs of the most serious woodworker yet easy enough for even a beginner to use. Inexpensive. In either inches or metric, the big advantage that an INCRA TS-LS fence system has over your current rip fence is quite simple: In addition to locking into perfect alignment, INCRA fences measure their distance from the blade mechanically, so your accuracy doesnt depend on how much skill you have, how good your shop's lighting is, or how tired your eyes are. Spend more time cutting, less time tapping and measuring! Woodworking is like a vicious cycle. Blue Book Categories. if I want any accuracy at all, I have to measure front and back, then tap the thing in to place before locking it down. Freight to AK,
INCRA Original Jig Fence System with MDF Fence and Shop Stop, INCRA JIG PRO UNIVERSAL PRECISION POSITIONING JIG 16 Inch - For parts, IncraLOCK Incremental Flip Fence Miter Gauge Fence - 36", The Original INCRA Jig + Original Jig Fence System with MDF Fence and Shop Stop, The Original INCRA Jig - Compact, Precision-Indexed Woodworking Jig, Original Incra Jig Universal Precision Positioning Incremental Device 71w6. Ones a system and one is just a fence. Table saw not included, only the fence is for sale. Does anyone have thoughts or opinions on one or both of them? To me there isn't any advantage to spend more $$$. Local ~, Thanks! the front and two on the rear. INCRA PushGuard
Are there options that I might be overlooking? The
As far as the micro adjuster, that is something I do not use (also have not used it on other saws/fences that have had one). tables. I had been eyeing an Incra LS-TS for awhile but could never justify pulling the trigger for that little contractor saw. a blade diameter qualified as 10 in. INCRA MITER1000/18T Miter Gauge with 18" Track Fence and Stop for Table Saws. With over 13,000 square feet of showroom space, we are one of the largest woodworking stores in the Southwest to display a large variety of products. The standard TS-LS (LS32-TS) covers
He's got soooo much content on Youtube. threaded), lists the various categories of saws, and the. New Incra Fence System for Incra Jig NOS New Old Stock! Alan Little is greatlong winded, yes, but you can't say you don't learn anything from the guy.
Do you want to measure a distance and cut to that measurement, or would you rather mark directly from the piece and cut to it that way. TS-LS Joinery Systems are available in 32", 52", 810mm and 1320mm range models.