Independent churches have no organized organization over them in authority. ANyone who wont give to thie ronw family or help the place where they go to felloship togther (bills etc) is pretty lousy I think & no amount of preaching it will probally make a differenc eunless God pricks thier hearts. It sounds like you believe that we are not required to tithe, but somehow we are better off if we do? Ok so he starts attempting to pull the heart strings about loved ones that you are around daily, and if you are telling them enough about getting saved etc. That made them in the eyes of God as legitimate a church as any Paul founded. In examining many so-called early Baptist churches you find many doctrinal errors and false teaching. It was almost like watching 12yr olds trying to run a corporation. I began my spiritual walk with Jesus studying the New Testament, but my journey through the Old Testament only reinforced my belief in the New and showed me more about God. It bases its belief in the New Testament teaching that every believer is a priest to himself, having full excess to God without the need to go through a church, church leader or priest. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. He showed me a . Nothing comforted. I usually look fwd to these. (1 Tim. Most Baptist churches were in the past founded on the sound doctrinal teachings of the New Testament, however, many of them have in varying degrees drifted away from many of the teachings of the Scriptures. He is not nearly as fundy as where I left from, and is learning. I, for one, am glad you wont post here again after that comment, but I hope you will at least read this, although Im not holding my breath. The only power above the pastor is God, and Gods silence seems to imply endorsement and collaboration. I will not post here again. I love the way David Hayword (aka The nakedpastor) explains some of the problem. I would like to hear further explanation of the following: (Colossians 1:18; Matthew 18:15-20; Acts 15:22-21; 2 Corinthians 8:1-5, 19, 23) Priesthood of the Believer. In the many books on church history which make up the bibliography for this paper, there is not one recorded incident of a Baptist church beginning founded out of Roman Catholicism. PASTOR PAUL DYCK. This was the best onemembers in our church raise hands, say amen, clap after special music (GASP! I attend an Independent Baptist church and Ill answer your questions This kind of power is frightening to meet with. It did not produce a succession of other churches, but those who founded it went on to set up other Baptist churches in England. It became an independent church in 1746. That is what saved believers have always believed, because that is what the New Testament which is Gods Word to man says. You can tell right away that something doesnt sound right. I understand what you are saying about these kind of messages with strong emotional appeals. From there, entering into an IFB church really gave me a culture shock. In order to distinguish between the doctrinally unsound Baptist churches and those that believed the Bible many Baptist churches changed their name. Places Near Chandler, AZ with Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches. If the staff at Costa Mesa accepts the person, he becomes an affiliated clergyman in a global network led by Chuck Smith.. Like friends of my son who were in Mexico recently. Our Pastor teaches that Baptism does not save us and is no a requirement of salvation. There are hundreds of archaic words that I have no idea what they mean and then you have words that have actually changed meaning since the KJV was published like conversation, to me that means to talk with someone, not in the KJV, it means behavior, prevent is another one, to me it means to stop someone from doing something, not in the KJV, it means to precede. I think that point was already addressed. You could mean those persons or churches which held to the Baptists beliefs although they may not have called themselves Baptists. This directory, containing close to 10,000 churches and counting, is aimed at getting you the information you need when you need it. Puritan churches persecuted the Baptists in America until the U. S. Constitution was made the law of the land in 1787. We are not under law, but under grace. He returned to Salem where he was summoned before the court in Boston because of his outspoken beliefs and was banished from the colony. Jesus quoted the old testament. 521 13 AVE W. WILLISTON ND 58801 (701) 572-7839 CH. Again Im not sure what the Word of God sais about dress. You are truly blind and I hope that you will one day see more clearly. People have a tendency to attempt to conceal their sin. Updates? He was heavily fined and then imprisoned. The first is the United Church of Christ and secondly is the one I refer to, Independent Churches of Christ. Ive told bits and pieces of my story here over the last couple of years, so dont want to travel back through all of that, suffice it to say I left a very legalistic IFB, and now find myself in a tiny, new work that a friend started about 4 years ago (about 20 on Sunday) he calls it a Baptist church, I spoke to him about taking the baptist title out of it, but he wouldnt have it. I already estb basis of why Tithing I believe is good (must read all post under Lynne). Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they Independent Baptist churches (some also called Independent Fundamental Baptist or IFB) are Christian congregations, generally holding to conservative (primarily fundamentalist) Baptist beliefs. -How do you determine whether or not a church teaches or practices false doctrine? Im sure you realize all this, but I thought I would throw my voice in it. This church had no ties to anyone or any other church, yet this was a Baptist church as much as any Baptist church ever was. 3. KJV Church Directory. Do you think you can bring others to Christ in this manner? I humbly asked a question. Please anyone readng this, go back and take a couple weeks and seriously read through the gospels again, over and over, our Lord talks about, and condemns pharisees and others for dressing up the outside and not being concerned about the inside, btw if the inside is right the outside will follow. They many have been called by various names, before assemblies used the name Baptist. I agree! Robert Fry Pastor of Bible Baptist Church in Plattsburgh, NY Deception, 75. Pagan temples became the meetinghouses for Christians. Rome, then hired unregenerate pagan priests as Christian ministers. The ordinance of baptism, or 2. Also in regards to the restcommon sense is you give according to how you deal with your values ,etc. I do dislike what seems to be human effort in trying to do what only the Spirit of God can do through a clear presentation of the word of God. These people give Jesus and Christianity overall a black eye every time they go to a military funeral or any other event they have absolutely no respect for. Make no mistake though baptism will never save anyone! My Sunday school teacher and I have discussed the music issue and we both agree that there is nothng wrong with contemporary Christian music (I do believe some of it lifts up flesh rather than Jesus, though). Independent Fundamental Churches of America, fellowship of conservative, independent Christian churches stressing biblical truth. 6) teach old testament tithing new testamenent giving is found in 2 Cor 9:7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. King James (KJV) Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches in Arkansas. This site and others consistently speak about folks that follow and uplift man, in my faith I want only to lift up the God-man!! This charter was the very cornerstone of American religious freedom! When the Roman Emperor declared Christianity the religion of Rome, he in mass converted hordes of pagans which made up the Empire. Some years ago when I was attempting to find another church for my family to attend so as to escape a spiritually abusive IFB, I found myself at a Church of Christ that had split from the large COC in town. The pastor's name is Kevin Draganac. @greg I apologize for my assumptions! The IFBs always point fingers at the Catholics, but the Baptist faith is loaded with the traditions of men, I guess its kind of hard to escape. Although they were a great deal more pious than the Church of England they still practiced most of its beliefs including infant baptism. None of us that I know of follow his every word like it was the Gospel truth. Not just the New Testament. Suppose too that some of them on reading that Bible were to believe and repent of their sins and place their trust in Gods Son and His redemption for personal sin. The connection with past churches for the modern Baptist is not the name, but rather their doctrine and practice. These New Testament believers rejected every attempt to include them in with the other churches who compromised and accepted the Roman governments money, rule and authority. http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/ This site is run by a Jack Hyles follower. The Baptist bases his authority solely on the Bible itself. Jesus statement to the Pharisees about tithing would not apply to you because you are not a Jew under the Mosaic Law. I think Calvary Chapel churches are great. ), and maybe even stand up and shout if the Lord really touches their heart, Sorry that you had a bad experience, but not all IFB churches are alike, and mine is great! when I said I hear a lot that the IFB has strict dress standards. S.J. There were nine original members of the church which included two women. Hello, mint, rue and all manner of herbs all agricultural products from the land. Its derived from two possible origins: 1. 601 1ST AVE SE . After Roger Williams stepped down, Thomas Olney took over as the pastor of the church in Rhode Island. If I wanted to wear a sponge bob costume while leading worship I probably would not be allowed to do this in most Churches. Others have to a lesser degree compromised the Word of God by their teaching, practices and church polity trying to confront to popular religious tends. You want to point out that you think that I have anger issues, but have a look at your comments, I dont see awhole lot of love dripping off of your comments either. No, we are to teach and preach the Word. The influx of these falsely converted pagans is one reason Roman Catholicism came to have so many idolatrous and pagan beliefs. But anyway he says that if those folks go to Hell, that their blood would be on your hands. I made a very similar forgiveness plea on facebook just yesterday, asking all to forgive me if I had ever legalistically stepped on them. They do not accept that authority was given to any particular man, pope, prophet, group or church on earth to be the means of the salvation of men. Tithing is a good thing to do & I believe God can be glorified if done with right heart, intent & purporses. Individuals may also seek membership, and those who do are usually ministers, missionaries, Bible teachers, evangelists, editors of Christian periodicals, or students. Independent Church. KJB. I dont see a thing wrong with it; He didnt make us to be wooden. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.. As many theologians saywe can agree to disagree on some things but when it comes to the Fundamental of the Christian Faithbased on by the way what God says in the Word, then thats when one should draw the line b/c its no longer a matter of Christians in various fellowships & preferances that are allowable but then becomes a matter of even being a Christian at all (like Mormonisn, Jehovahs Wittness, Catholics, etc). In other words, when the Bible speaks, the words have a literal meaning and that it the meaning God intended. The KJV is a wonderful translation and very valid for its time, and you, like many others love it for its beautiful shakesperean english. NOT ONE. I think it is true that God certainly does choose people and draw them to Himself. Secondly, they believe in a clergy/laity distinction by ordaining so-called Pastors. This is not found in scripture. He can make it without out $$$, but we need to learn to let go of it. [CDATA[ Pastors Deserve Double Salary? I sat next to this mans bed for hours as he screamed in agony and torment. We never shun people who leave the church. Any professed church that does not recognize these is Apsotasy & not the Church. I am divorced, and I always sit in the front rows. In Germany, the state church is Lutheran and in England, the Anglican church, France, the Roman Catholic Church, etc. I am an IFB. They were a New Testament church, not because of a succession of churches or men, but because they formed their church on the principles of the New Testament. If that were the case, Paul left out the most important person/position in addressing the Phillipian saints. I posted my last post like 3 days ago and it just came up recently. 8.) Enter city. Here ar ethe key words: ought to have done without leaving the others undone, which would mean that tithing is good. 4 Reasons Christians Are Wrong About Homosexuality, 63. Adulterous generally hide their actions. Join us for lively old-fashioned singing, fellowship, (and yes!) No one in USA at least (whether IFB, CALVARLY CHAPEL, MOST CHURCHES, etc) tithe on all belongings at they practiced thier & our money/wealth/argicultural exchange & system is very different. It should be free. Thousands of Southern Baptist Churches didn't baptize a single convert last year. Also, and Im not sure how to word this question properly, but during the building of the original NT church as described in Acts and further in the rest of the NT, wouldnt they have had to subscribe to some form of outside authority and control in order for the church to be formed? One of the last acts of the Presbyterians, before the Long Parliament in England fell, was to past a law passing the death penalty on anyone who was caught holding to what they called Eight Errors in Doctrine. These doctrines included infant baptism. However, let me strongly say there has always existed an unbroken line of churches who have not erred from the faith, and been true to the Bible, Gods Word. 3. True Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches uphold the purest teachings of the early church as revealed in the New Testament. At any rate, logical fallacies dont need to be in or out of context to be called logical fallacies. Knolleys after two years returned to England at the request of his father. 10 Myths About the King James Version, 68. By 1644, these congregations grew to seven churches. By 1626, the churches had grown from one, to five churches and by 1644 there were forty congregations. You CANNOT be loving either if you are refusing to render unto the Lord that which is his, and this includes tithing. The Independent Fundamental Baptist church could be defined as a cult given the multiple definitions of a cult and the characteristics of the IFB. They practice the Biblical teachings of separation as stated in Ephesians 5:11, which says, Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. This means that IFB churches do not look to creeds, confessions, or church councils to determine their doctrinal positions. They have a 1st Amendment right to speak their mind, but that doesnt mean shouting down a preacher at a military funeral. These churches appear to have been baptistic and remained sound until Austin, the Catholic monk brought Catholicism to the Isles in 597 AD. 74. Remember new testament christians are never compelled to give mandatory gifts, if you have been taught that, you have been taught wrong. https://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/hyles_effect.php. So, IT IS in the New Testament! Other churches founded in New England and in the Middle colonies were the actual mother churches of modern Baptist churches as these churches were responsible for starting other churches. Now when the head of a church & all dem that fall in line must appply apsotast (like openly Gay Pastor, etc) than you should have some of them on here big. The transformation God is making in our lives makes us stand out. They left these churches because of their strong conviction the Word of God should not be compromised. We use our monetary resources alone. As far as I can tell, we are not cultic in any way and just like any other denomination we have our doctrinal differences. 6.) 77. Its not that I wouldnt want to give to bothbut if I only have 30 dollars; Id rather give to feed, clothe, house & most of all share the Gospel vs just feed, clothe & housed. All but seven were above the Mason-Dixon line. In 1638, Williams made his way to what is now Providence, Rhode Island, and there bought some land from the Indians. To hold to the secessionist position takes the authority away from the New Testament and places it in the hands of man. . Personally, I try to for the most part give as I think God is pleased incl supporting Evangelism Ministrys like Compassion (that not only care for childrens physical need but also spirtual vs. the formerly known as Christian Childrens Fund now I believe under the name Child Aide, mainly becaus eCompassion confesses to be Christian & I believe to support church endeavors. -Ray, My church preaches those five points and we are an IFB church. An interesting read. The Presbyterians took over the job of persecution biblical believers and forbade Knolleys from preaching in parish churches. The purpose of the Law being fullfilled we should do all good works in Christ for we are saved to do good works. The New Testament is the authority in all matters of faith and practice. The one caution I would give is to allow God to speak to you through the scriptures, that is the most critical. They loved the Lord and many of them gave their lives and fortunes for the sake of Christ. Catholicsm is beyond a denomination & a religious institution with some Christian tenants. I personally do not think tithing is wrong, When Jesus refers to tithing didnt He uphold it & only objected to other sins but did not speak aganist it. Also, you keep mentioning Jesus statement about not leaving tithing undone. They tried to establish that according to history, Baptists have an unbroken line of churches since Christ. My mother is divorced, as are a few others in the congregation. There was no hierarchy in the churches he founded, which were patterned after the simple New Testament example. Would you agree with me on this? It originally applied through the 1700s to Lutherans, and Anglicans. Sorry to tell you, but youve been deceived. Thats all. Knolleys joined other dissenters left England. The Association of Fundamental Baptist Churches in the Philippines AFBCP is an organization guiding cooperative ministries of Independent Baptist We hope it will be a blessing to you. Sure enough, Stedfast Baptist Church, founded in 2017, is not a large or well-known church. But it is for these very reasons that I and millions of other Americans cant understand it. Off the top of my head, I can think of 7-8 divorced couples in our church right now (and we only have around 150 in regular attendance) Yes, I knew the life he led, and there was nothing externally that suggested he was anything but a vile sinner who was never saved. Lynne, Cooper P. Abrams, III ALL RIGHTS RESERVED: This publication has been reprinted with permission from the author. I have done my share of research on what defines a cult and unless Im missing something, we dont qualify as a such. Although, many Protestants returned in part to a belief in the Bible as their authority for their faith and practice, not one of them EVER completely left all the doctrinal errors and false teachings of the apostate Roman Catholic church. An Independent Fundamental Baptist church exists for the sole purpose of evangelizing the world with the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ. For my part, I will continue to preach the Gospel and to teach the Word faithfully. Protestants for centuries saw the Baptists as their enemies and murdered them by the thousands in the name of Protestantism. In North Carolina the first Baptist church was started in the northeastern coastal region at Perquimans, in Chowan County in 1727. Thank you. Introducing the Abusive Randy Ireland, You Might Be an Independent Fundamental Baptist if, Broad Stroking and Sweeping Generalizations Fallacy, Harold Camping Fails to Predict the Rapture, The 10 Commandments of the Independent Fundamental Baptists, 92-Year-Old Woman Kicked Out of Church for not Tithing, Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) De. In the simplest of terms a true Baptist assembly is one which follows the New Testament as his sole authority for his faith and practice. Its is true that many Baptists left the ranks of Protestant churches which were doctrinal unsound and apostate. In only a few years however, the church had lost all but ten members to the Mennonites and other groups in Holland. Enter keyword. To fulfill something as in Jesus fulfilled the law means that it is satisfied, meaning that it is no longer needed. My sister left the church years ago and is living in sin (even by the standards of other denominations so please dont take it out of context), but I talk to her every day. Ok, so Im pretty sure you are referring to the Church of Christ that was founded by good ol Thomas Campbell (1763-1854) He was a fine Scottish Presbyterian who left Ireland to come to western PA. in 1807. I think I already addressed that point. But they should not be confused with Fundamental Baptists. He states there were Baptists in England 1400 AD. Total. In a biblical church the pastor is the overseers or leaders of the congregation. Benedict states that the English Roman Catholics in 1535, put to death twenty two Baptists for heresies. It tried to explain and figure out why IFB churches seem to be drying up and closing their doors. But when we begin to paint entire church groups with the broad brush of generalities then OUR motives become suspect. Its beginning charter reads as follows: We whose names are hereunder written, being desirous to inhabit ourselves in active and passive obedience to all such orders or agencies as shall be made for the public good of the body in an orderly way, by the major consent of the present inhabitants, masters of families, incorporated together into the same, only in civil things.. Each year members profess 16 articles of faith that include the original five points of fundamentalismthe literal truth of divinely inspired scripture, the Virgin Birth and deity of Christ, substitutionary atonement through Christ, the Resurrection, and the Second Coming of Christ. First I find your demeaning undertone disheartening.